Richard Behar exchanged emails with Bernie Madoff for a decade

You might not have heard Bernie Madoff’s identify shortly, however that does not imply the story of the infamous fraudster or the ache he induced is over.

Irving Picard, the 83-year-old court-appointed trustee, nonetheless spends his days making an attempt to get well cash from beneficiaries of Madoff’s Ponzi scheme and scale back the large losses of others.

Greater than 100 authorized proceedings proceed over the worst fraud in historical past.

Richard Behar, who simply revealed a brand new biography, “Madoff: The Final Phrase,” continues to be making an attempt to know the way in which Madoff thought. What enabled a person to plagiarize Elie Wiesel, a Holocaust survivor who later turned the Holocaust’s main chronicler? Or sitting in a theater together with his spouse, Ruth, having fun with a film whereas realizing that he has worn out the life financial savings of 1000’s of individuals around the globe?

These questions have dogged Behar, who informed CNBC he has lengthy been fascinated by scammers. He contacted Madoff because the monetary felony was serving a 150-year sentence in North Carolina, lengthy after most different reporters had turned their consideration elsewhere.

Behar first expressed his condolences to Madoff, whose son Mark had simply dedicated suicide in December 2010, the second anniversary of Madoff’s father’s arrest.

Quickly after, an electronic mail popped up in Behar’s inbox with the topic line: “Prisoner: Madoff, Bernard L.” The message launched a decade-long relationship that included Roughly 50 cellphone conversations, a whole bunch of emails and three in-person visits. When Madoff died in April 2021, Behar was nonetheless writing his biography. Madoff usually complained to Behar that he was taking too lengthy on the ebook.

“He as soon as joked that he can be lifeless by the point the ebook got here out, which was after all true, though I by no means deliberate it that means,” Behar mentioned.

CNBC spoke with Behar, an award-winning journalist and Forbes investigative editor at massive, through electronic mail this month. (Dialog has been edited and condensed for type and readability.)

Anne Nova: You write that you’re an investigative reporter with a “specific fondness for scammers.” Why do you assume that is?

Richard Behar: I’ve at all times been fascinated by how con artists’ brains work. I am significantly taken with con males who steal from these near them, maybe obsessively – like Madoff.

A con man I visited in jail within the Nineties did one thing related. Earlier than Bernie was arrested, this man ran the longest Ponzi scheme ever, for 11 years. He was an orphan, raised by his aunts and uncles however devoured them financially, in addition to his cousins, his spouse’s dad and mom, his finest associates – even his so-called religion in God And the confused nun. I used to be additionally not raised by organic dad and mom, I spent my childhood in foster care. I can not faux to think about doing that to the individuals who stepped as much as care about me, however it was endlessly enticing to me. Possibly that is the place individuals’s love for con males comes from.

AN: Was Madoff taken with your life?

RB: In our almost ten-year relationship, he by no means requested me any private questions. It is actually unbelievable. Typically I might give him alternatives, corresponding to telling him that I grew up in a small city not removed from his hometown—with an identical however poorer Jewish subculture—however he would not say something. He could not care much less. I requested a psychologist about this, and her concept was that Bernie was such a malignant narcissist that he could not “preserve my actuality, he may solely preserve his personal.” It was inconceivable for him to be a three-dimensional particular person as a result of if he may think about that, he must think about the schoolteacher who misplaced his pension.

AN: What is the best regret you have seen him present for what he did?

RB: I as soon as requested him if he may ever forgive himself for being a Ponzi schemer, and he mentioned “no, by no means.” He insists he feels nice regret for many who stole. However I by no means fairly felt it. There was by no means a tear. I requested him why he did not cry through the sentencing, and he snapped: “After all I did not cry. I used to be made to cry.”

AN: How did Madoff say jail life modified him?

RB: He by no means talked about it. He as soon as described himself as feeling numb. I mentioned, “I can not think about what that will be like.” He replied, “You do not need to know, you do not need to know.”

In some methods, I believe going to jail was a giant reduction for him. Operating a Ponzi scheme for a century and a half can actually be exhausting. In jail, he often wakened in his cell round 4 a.m., made espresso in mattress with an immediate scorching water machine, and skim or listened to NPR till breakfast. He labored first within the kitchen, then within the laundry room, then managed the inmates’ pc room.

That final job made me snigger as a result of he informed me he may barely activate the pc in his workplace, which was a purple flag to everybody within the firm that he wasn’t really buying and selling shares.

AN: You wrote about him seeing a therapist in jail. Do we all know how usually this occurs, or how lengthy it lasts? Does this appear to be serving to him?

RB: He ended a cellphone dialog abruptly as a result of he needed to attend a weekly appointment with a psychologist. Later he known as me and I requested the way it was going. He laughed and mentioned it was useful, that she was a “great girl” and that he thought he ought to have gone to remedy years in the past. However regardless that the programs had been useful, he mentioned he by no means discovered the solutions he sought about why he dedicated the fraud and why he damage so many individuals.

He was disturbed by information stories calling him a sociopath. He mentioned he requested his therapist, “Am I a sociopath? Lots of the purchasers are family and friends – how may I do that?” Burney claimed she informed him that individuals have the power to distinguish, Like thugs killing individuals after which going dwelling and taking their youngsters.

You simply put it behind you. I requested her if she had a prognosis. He mentioned, no, only a divider. Possibly she informed him this to make him really feel higher since he would by no means be capable of get out.

AN: It seems like Madoff was ready to be caught for all these years. Is it proper? Did he at all times know he could not escape this? What was it like for him to stay in that suspended state?

RB: Bernie mentioned he had been underneath fixed stress from the Ponzi scheme and would generally speak loudly to himself within the workplace as a result of stress. He mentioned one in all his largest methods to alleviate stress is to take a seat in a darkish movie show together with his spouse, Ruth, and watch motion pictures twice every week. He additionally mentioned he deceived himself into pondering some “miracle” would bail him out of the Ponzi scheme, however he knew for at the very least a decade earlier than his arrest that he would by no means escape the Ponzi scheme.

He mentioned the one time he actually relaxes is on the weekends, when he is on his yacht. I interviewed a former FBI behavioral evaluation professional who instructed that Bernie felt secure on the boat as a result of he may see 360 ​​levels round him, all the way in which to the horizon, so he would have loads of early warning of incoming threats.

AN: You paint a really attention-grabbing portrait of Irving Picard, the 83-year-old court-appointed trustee who spent years making an attempt to get well cash for Madoff’s traders. Is that this the one job Picard has had in years? Why did he make this his life mission?

RB: Picard hardly ever spoke to the media. I simply chatted with John Moscow, the previous chief white-collar crime prosecutor within the Manhattan District Legal professional’s Workplace who labored on a few of the Madoff circumstances for the trustees. “Owen was a really loyal public servant,” he mentioned. He was utterly centered on his mission. John’s phrases: “He is not loopy about it, however he is fairly shut.”

In my ebook, I quote a former federal prosecutor who mentioned you would examine this case for 50 years and nonetheless not study all the reality, however Picard wasn’t . That is Bernie’s solely chapter since 2008, 4 days after his arrest. Mushy teddy bear. He may make them pay over time, or he may take somebody’s home however go away them a life curiosity.

AN: What do you assume individuals misunderstand most about Madoff?

RB: Many individuals who lose cash make the error of putting the blame solely on him, as a substitute of trying within the mirror and asking themselves how they might have put themselves in such a harmful state of affairs. Madoff’s sustained excessive returns had been merely not attainable. Even so, many internet losers consider the federal government owes them as a result of the SEC did not catch Bernie. However the company’s mission has by no means been to guard individuals from silly funding selections.

I discussed to you that I went to a jail within the Nineties to go to the person who ran the longest Ponzi scheme earlier than Madoff was arrested. Similar to Bernie, this con man could not have achieved it with out the complicity of the large banks. One investor complained to the SEC through the 11-year-old Ponzi scheme that he misplaced cash regardless that he was assured ridiculous returns of 20-25%. The scammer was arrested the subsequent day.

In Bernie’s case, not a single investor in his half-century of fraud ever contacted the SEC. They had been busy splashing within the gravy.